How Did We Get Here?

[00:00:01] Speaker A: All right. Welcome to Secrets and Lies, a storyteller's podcast. I'm Carolyn. [00:00:09] Speaker B: And I'm Vicki. [00:00:11] Speaker A: Two writers, actually, although I am a fiction writer. Mystery thriller kind of stories. [00:00:20] Speaker B: And I write about family secrets. [00:00:23] Speaker A: So both of us have this whole, like, skeletons in the closet thing, but it's like a completely different story for each of us. Mine would be an actual body. Vicky would deal more with, like, hey, look at all these cool things I'm finding in the archives about the family or missing bodies. Hey, that too. [00:00:47] Speaker C: All right. [00:00:50] Speaker A: So, like a lot of writers out there, I am a writer with a day job. Vicki is also sort of a writer with a day job, although a little different. I'll let you explain that. [00:01:04] Speaker B: So I'm a developmental editor by day, and I help people edit their books for structure and stuff over high level type editing. I am not a proofreader. Don't ask me to proofread anything, please. [00:01:20] Speaker A: I feel like I need a good editing kick in the pants every now and then. Anyway, here's the weird thing. The both of us are now in western North Carolina. That's why I'm calling this first one the how did we get here? But I'm not from North Carolina. Are you from North Carolina? [00:01:43] Speaker B: I am not from North Carolina. I've been here before. [00:01:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I had been here before, too, but weirdly. Vicki and I met during an MFA program at the University of Tampa. I wasn't living in Tampa, either. That was a low residency program. So I actually moved to North Carolina from Baltimore this year, and I did. [00:02:07] Speaker B: Live in Tampa area. So even though it was a low residency program where people get to travel away and have a really good time while they're at their residency, I drove across town. [00:02:20] Speaker A: Yeah, my significant other called it adult spring break. The residency. His view on what we were doing skipped over all of the massive amounts of work and reading and writing and late nights and everything to the hanging out at the bar in the pool. That's really what he thought I was doing. [00:02:39] Speaker B: And what do we remember the most? [00:02:41] Speaker A: Hanging out at the bar and in the pool. [00:02:43] Speaker B: That's right. [00:02:45] Speaker A: That's where all the good stories come from. Yeah, but it was just a really weird thing. We were looking to leave Maryland and did not want to go back to Florida, which is actually where I grew up and had visited North Carolina years ago and thought it was really nice. And so just as a complete coincidence, just as we were shopping or starting to think about it, you mentioned that you were shopping and starting to think about it, and so you actually moved here before me. [00:03:17] Speaker B: Yes. We've actually been researching it for a few years and trying to pinpoint which little town we wanted to move to from Florida, because both my husband and I grew up in Florida, where it's very flat, and the mountains were intriguing for us. So we have been wanting to move here. We just did it a lot sooner than we planned to. [00:03:41] Speaker A: And then, weirdly, two other friends of ours who were also in the MFA program ended up not in this town, exactly, but not too far away as well, which is just like this strange thing. And then two colleagues that had worked with me at a job before moved down. One whose husband transferred to a location in Charlote, and they live over in that area, and then another who bought a house in Rutherfordton. Is that am I saying that right? Rutherfordton? [00:04:14] Speaker B: I believe it is, yes. Awkward. It's a very long word with too many syllables. [00:04:20] Speaker A: So she has a beautiful house on top of a mountain and a bajillion hummingbirds and everything, and so she'd gotten down here like you did before me, so I had lots of resources to ask questions about and whatever as we were starting the long distance shopping for what? Anyway, long story short, we're in North Carolina now, and this is a very different kind of living experience than Baltimore. [00:04:50] Speaker B: City, I would say, even from Tampa, it's a lot different. [00:04:55] Speaker A: Yeah, but I don't mean to make that sound like it's a bad thing. It's very sweet. I remember when we were first moving into the house, I had ordered DoorDash, which is absolutely a thing you do in the city. And here when my I think it was bagels or something from Joey's or I don't know, it came with a little sticky note with a smiley face, and it said, have a wonderful day. And I thought, oh, my goodness, this would never happen in Baltimore like in a bajillion years. So it seemed very sweet. And my neighbors dropped off some bakery items, and they'll stop in the street and get out of their running car, which they'll leave and just to say, hey, welcome to the neighborhood. [00:05:46] Speaker B: Yeah, that would not happen in no, no. So I think one thing that I really enjoyed, and I think this was our first night staying here in Hendersonville, which is where we are, and was we went to one of the local places called Hot Dog World. [00:06:05] Speaker A: Oh, my God. Hot dog world. [00:06:07] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I took Carolyn there, and yeah, she's all in on the Hot Dog World. It's good stuff. [00:06:15] Speaker A: I just remember driving. I drove down I think Tracy was with me, and it was a long day in the car, and we were hungry, and Vicki says, let's go to Hot Dog World. And I'm like, okay, but it's so awesome. [00:06:32] Speaker B: It is. Every time we go there, though, this is the one small town thing that I love about Hot Dog World is when you're in the dining room, it seems like there's always somebody that gets up from one table, walks to another table and says, hey, how are you doing? And they all know each other. [00:06:50] Speaker A: Everybody knows each other, yes. [00:06:51] Speaker B: Small town. [00:06:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Anyway and it's so delicious. It doesn't sound like a place that I don't know, but it's so ridiculously good. And yeah, it has become a favorite. [00:07:04] Speaker B: A quick favorite, and that's just one of the many favorites. But that first night, also, we ate at Hot Dog World, and then we walked like, two blocks to downtown, and there was a car show going on, which is something my husband David loves the car. [00:07:19] Speaker A: Know, there seems to be a lot of festivals. Like, there's almost always something going on downtown. Like the Thursday night concerts. I went to pick up paint because you know how it is when you move into a new house and they were setting up a stage in the parking lot. I'm what's going on? It's a Thursday, and they have what is it, bruise and Blues and Bruise. [00:07:40] Speaker B: Bruise, I guess. Yes, I think so. [00:07:42] Speaker A: So they have live music. [00:07:43] Speaker B: Even though the first concert I saw on one of those Thursday nights was an 80s band called Laser Lover. [00:07:50] Speaker A: And they were great. [00:07:52] Speaker B: They were good. [00:07:52] Speaker A: I'll be watching for that. Yes, I love me some 80s music. In fact, the only reason I know about Hendersonville at all is that on one of the trips we came down to visit Asheville. The front desk guy at our hotel recommended that we check out the Apple Festival because we were here on Labor Day Week. And so we did. We drove down to Hendersonville, and it was just adorable and like, yet another festival where they close off the entire downtown and everybody walks around and there are lots of booths with food on a stick, and it was Apple everything. And again, live music and super charming Apple everything. [00:08:38] Speaker B: I think I think I might have been bragging a lot about apples on Facebook because the last time my daughter and her girlfriend visited, her girlfriend Cassidy, she's oh, I wonder if there's even apples here. And she's being a real smart ass about it. Probably because I've been bragging about all of the apples and all the different apple things you can make. I have an apple spice cake mix waiting for me to make in there in the kitchen right now. Yeah, she's a smart ass. [00:09:08] Speaker C: But anyway. [00:09:13] Speaker A: Lots of things about moving into a small town. I live in a neighborhood that has one road in, and it has a very involved in social homeowners association. They have, like, monthly meet and eats, they call them that. I actually haven't had time day job, haven't really had time to attend. But my mother has, which is a whole other story. But they're very social and active, which is why they will stop their car in the street and come and talk to you. Or I had a neighbor come and find me and say she wanted to take me out to lunch because I was new so that was very sweet. But they will also stop when they are noticing things going on at your house, and they're very curious, and they have absolutely no problem getting to the bottom of what's happening. [00:10:07] Speaker B: So how are you settling into this neighborhood anyway? [00:10:11] Speaker A: Well, we bought this lovely house, but it was full of wallpaper and craziness, and so we thought, hey, we'll get some help in here and get some of this stuff taken out right away before we get too settled in. And like all kind of home construction contractor projects that turned into a bit of a fiasco and took three times longer than it should have. But in the meantime, there were lots of cars and things at my house. So then the neighborhood was talking a great deal about just how many people live in that house. And then to pile on, my mom sold her house in Florida and moved up to stay with us. And eventually she will have her own apartment in the basement, which is getting built out. Now, this is yet a different crew that's there with their trucks. So it looks like there are 15 people living in my house, but there are not. Yeah. And then just to pile on so I want to make sure that we are that house. That house. We had a bunch of ivy and all kinds of stuff grown up in the whatever, and it turns out you can hire a herd of goats to. [00:11:39] Speaker B: Come to your that's what I need property. I have poison ivy. I have English ivy, which I love, but it is very invasive. And with it comes poison ivy, and it's everywhere. I need goats. [00:11:51] Speaker A: Goats can eat the poison ivy, and not only does it not hurt them, but they like it. So yeah, so you can hire goats. They bring their own little electric fence and set it up and let the herd loose. It was like a petting zoo in my yard. And I kept being afraid, like the neighborhood kids were going to touch the electric fence. But anyway, you were all on top. [00:12:18] Speaker B: Of those goats, though, I remember. I stopped by and you were like, this is this goat. This is the alpha goat. This is so and so. You had their names. [00:12:29] Speaker A: I did. I had five goats, a mama and four of her kids. Yeah, that's what they're called. Yeah. And one of them was the prankster, the bad one, the mischievous one. Yeah. He got out a couple of times. He just hopped. [00:12:52] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:52] Speaker A: Anywho yeah. So we've pretty much cemented our reputation in the neighborhood there. Yeah. So Vicki vicki got me into some reading writing activities right away because it's super easy for those of you, you know, you have all of these good intentions about writing and continuing with your projects, even though you've got all this other chaotic stuff going on, that's for sure. And introduced me to a local group that meets at the Brandy Bar. So that was kind of fun. [00:13:31] Speaker B: Brandy bar is really cute. It's a small space, but it's developed by an artist who she had some other career, but decided this is what she wanted to do, is create drinks. And every month they have the Writers network come in, and that is not the exact name for them, north Carolina writers. [00:14:00] Speaker A: And I'll look it up. [00:14:01] Speaker B: It's close. [00:14:02] Speaker A: We'll put a link to yeah, yeah. [00:14:04] Speaker B: And then they also have a Songwriters Night, too, so that's fun to go to. Also, so I love this one, and it's in the older part of town. [00:14:13] Speaker A: Next to an incredible taco stand. Yes, I say taco stand. It's a taco building. It's not really a taco stand. It's an actual building. But they have a lot of outdoor space, and their tacos are ridiculously good. [00:14:26] Speaker B: They are good. They're like gourmet tacos. [00:14:30] Speaker A: So yeah, so I went and signed up, and I read a story excerpt at this place, and I've done readings at other places before. I did one in a really cute coffee shop up in Baltimore, but this one was neat because before the readings happened, they had just, like, these two dudes playing guitar up there. And it was very chill and interesting, and all of the other readers were good, and nobody took too much time or very true. It was a really nice night. So, anyway, if you happen to be in Hendersonville and you see that that's up at the Brandy Bar. Check it out. [00:15:19] Speaker B: Yeah. And sometimes they put posters around downtown, too little flyers to advertise the reading night. It's a good one. Yeah. [00:15:31] Speaker A: All right, so we have a little game we like to play called Truth or Fiction. I, of course, a fiction writer, and Vicki lives usually in the world of nonfiction, but we know there are some times where you will hear a story and it just does not sound plausible at all, but it absolutely happened and the other way around. So we thought we'd play this little game called Truth or Fiction. [00:16:01] Speaker C: All right, so you have two minutes. [00:16:03] Speaker B: To tell me about a yeah, I'm going to give you a story this week. [00:16:09] Speaker A: Okay, I'm ready. [00:16:11] Speaker B: I'm going to give you a story, and it's an event of some kind, and you have to guess whether it's true, story or fictional. [00:16:18] Speaker A: Got it. [00:16:19] Speaker B: All right, so it's 1913, and there's this man who loved a slut. [00:16:28] Speaker A: Okay? [00:16:30] Speaker B: She got around. She had a number of lovers. [00:16:33] Speaker A: All right? [00:16:33] Speaker B: Okay. So one of them, she kept a lover, and he moved in with her. This is the guy, the man who loved the sleut, she let him move in, and during the day, he would run around and clean house with her or make bathtub gin, which is something I'd like to learn about. [00:16:52] Speaker A: Oh, this is prohibited. Is that prohibition? [00:16:55] Speaker B: It must have been 1913. It might have been. [00:16:57] Speaker A: Before or during maybe bathtub gym is just cheaper thing. [00:17:01] Speaker B: Yeah, okay. [00:17:02] Speaker A: All right. [00:17:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And when he wasn't helping her clean house, he was, like, writing science fiction or little pulpy stories. So anyway, five years later, she's forced to move, and the person forcing her to move is her husband. [00:17:26] Speaker A: Wait, what? [00:17:29] Speaker B: So she's like, well, I don't want to move. And we know why she doesn't want to move, because she's got this lover, and, yes, he did move in with her. He lives in the attic. [00:17:40] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. [00:17:41] Speaker B: Yes. [00:17:42] Speaker A: So she and her husband live in a place, and there is a lover that lives in the attic. [00:17:47] Speaker B: Correct. Let's see. [00:17:52] Speaker C: So his husband says, we're moving. [00:17:55] Speaker B: Something's not right here, so we're going to move. So she says, okay, but I get to pick the house. And she goes ahead and she picks a house with an attic. [00:18:02] Speaker A: With an attic, yes. [00:18:04] Speaker B: And lover boy goes out there first and moves into the attic. [00:18:09] Speaker A: This is a fantastic story. [00:18:10] Speaker B: This goes on for a decade. [00:18:12] Speaker A: Get out. [00:18:13] Speaker B: Yes, a decade. Until one day, hubby and wife get into a fight, and they're yelling, and he was a drinker. He was a drinker. So they're yelling at each other, and the boyfriend upstairs is like, I'm not having this. And he runs down two guns and he shoots the husband. And then they're like, oh, crap, what do we do now? So he locks her into a closet, and I don't know, he takes some jewelry or something or some money or something to make it look like a burglary. And because of the shots, police heard. [00:18:57] Speaker C: The shots, and the neighbors would have called the police. [00:19:00] Speaker B: So he ran back up and hid in the attic again, and it went on and let's see. So she's suspect, though, even though she's locked in the closet and they don't know how she got locked in there, they suspect her. Meantime, she's taking on more lovers. Oh, my goodness. [00:19:23] Speaker A: This is a busy lady. [00:19:24] Speaker B: Yes, she is a busy lady. So she finds this way to bat her eyes at a neighbor and get the neighbor to bury one of the guns for her. She gets this other boyfriend to throw one of the guns in the tarpits. [00:19:43] Speaker A: Oh, so california. [00:19:44] Speaker B: California now. [00:19:46] Speaker A: So there's a lot of detail here. I'm leaning towards true. [00:19:51] Speaker B: This is way more than two minutes. So, yeah, she goes to jail and the boyfriends get angry, they give up the guns, and she goes to jail. Meanwhile, this guy's in the attic, and he's getting skinny, and she's locked in. [00:20:10] Speaker A: The is he locked in the attic? [00:20:12] Speaker B: No, he's not. Well, maybe he is. He might be locked in the attic. What do you think? You think he's locked in the attic. [00:20:18] Speaker A: If he's getting skinny? Like nobody's bringing him food, this is. [00:20:22] Speaker C: Well, I think maybe she gets her lawyer to go let him out because she sleeps with him too. [00:20:29] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. All right, well, that's a lot of detail, so I'm going to guess true. [00:20:38] Speaker C: Yeah, you're right. [00:20:38] Speaker B: You got me on that. [00:20:40] Speaker A: You know what's? Actually, I actually wrote a story for Baltimore County Public Library. They have like a fundraiser thing for Halloween every year where they'll send know, people write spooky stories. And if you get selected, you get to read your story around the Ghost Story Fire Pit at the Reisterstown Branch, which is right next to a really old graveyard. So it being near Baltimore, they have like an Edgar Allan Poe impersonator dude who's out there, and you can go out and talk to him in the graveyard. And they have food trucks and a band and whatever and the Ghost Story Fire Pit. And so I wrote a story for this thing and I read it and it was about a dude who lived secretly in these women's houses, although they didn't know about it. [00:21:33] Speaker C: Oh, that's a creeper. [00:21:35] Speaker A: Yeah. So they didn't know he was there, and he would drug them occasionally and sleep with them in their bed. [00:21:43] Speaker C: Was he also one of those people that break in and take baths in the bathtub? [00:21:49] Speaker A: Well, he lived in the house. Just was there watching her all the time. Anyway, so I read this story and it was yet one of those things you writer folks out there can probably relate that when you write a story and you present a story, people will believe that you are somehow writing about them. Like, that character was obviously me, and I'm like, that character was not you at all. Is there something you want to tell. [00:22:21] Speaker B: Me. [00:22:26] Speaker A: That happened anyway? And then I've seen documentaries since then about there's actually a term for it, I think it's frogging, where people will break in and live in people's houses while they're there and watch them and stuff. Like it's an actual thing. I don't know if they're in the attic or where they are, but I saw a documentary about this couple and they were fighting back and forth. They lived in Hawaii, and it's because this random dude had moved into the house and was watching them. And he eventually got caught and got arrested, but when they got him, he had notebooks full of notes about how he wanted to do surgery on them, like crazy stuff, like he'd move things around and he would unlock doors and the husband and wife would fight because they would say, yes, I absolutely locked the door. And then when we go down there and the door would be open, and then they'd fight like, you lied to me. And it never occurred to them that there was a third person in the house. Yeah. [00:23:33] Speaker C: Which way does this go then? Is it like these crazy people are moving into houses and it gets in the news, so that inspires writers or to write about it? Or are writers writing a story like that, and people see it in the news and say, oh, that's a great idea. [00:23:54] Speaker A: I don't actually know. I think some of these people who break into houses and watch people do it for the thrill of doing it. Maybe I actually wrote the story that I wrote because I have a roomba. And at the time, I was living in a two story house and I had set my roomba off upstairs to vacuum upstairs. And then I forgot about it. But then I kept hearing it bumping around into things, and then it was. [00:24:25] Speaker C: Like, oh, that's the room. [00:24:26] Speaker A: Like, it would startle me. Or if I had it down on the first floor, it would move my shoes around or something. I would find something in the middle of the floor that I hadn't left there, and I'd be like, Wait a minute. And they'd be like, the roomba. So that's what inspired me to start the story. What if it wasn't the roomba? What if this person kept finding things like that or hearing things like that, but then passed it off as something simple? But it wasn't something simple. It was something whatever. [00:24:58] Speaker B: Very nice. [00:24:58] Speaker A: Anyway, all right. But that kind of thing happens a lot. So, like, a normal person who has a roomba probably doesn't think, like, how could I make this nefarious story out of this? But that's just kind of how my mind works. [00:25:15] Speaker C: I think there's a few writers like you that tend to have quite an imagination and come up with inspiration like that. [00:25:29] Speaker A: I don't want to say off putting, but it's alarming for people sometimes when they meet. Me and Dave and I, my significant other, were first talking and first meeting, and I was sharing that I wrote, like, crime fiction. He was a little afraid at first in case I turned out to be a crazy person, because jury's still out, by the way. [00:26:02] Speaker C: That's true. I mean, it was Oto Sanhuber, the guy that lived in the attic. And why would someone do that? Be a sex slave for a decade? That's the story I told. His name was Oto Sanhoober. He was a writer, too. He wrote sci-fi. [00:26:23] Speaker B: Wow. [00:26:25] Speaker A: So that is definitely a stranger than fiction. Kind of. [00:26:32] Speaker C: Flowers in the attic kind of thing. [00:26:33] Speaker A: Except it is a bit. So I wanted to ask you about you had recently posted oh, Vicki, by the way, has this fantastic blog called Secret Boxes. We'll put the link on our Facebook page, but you found an old Bible, I understand, in where was it? [00:26:59] Speaker C: An antique store, the antique store up in Waynesville, which is about an hour from here, up further into the mountains. I sometimes do a writer's retreat up there and just kind of found this, saw a book on a shelf with duct tape holding it together, and I thought, that's got to be old, something to that. And I opened it, and it had genealogy records in there from the 18 hundreds. And I thought, I don't know, I. [00:27:29] Speaker A: Think I want this sounds right up your alley. [00:27:32] Speaker C: It is exactly up my alley because I call it when something like that looks like it belongs to a family, we call it an orphan heirloom. [00:27:43] Speaker A: An orphan heirloom? [00:27:45] Speaker B: Yes. [00:27:45] Speaker C: And there are people out there I am one, that like to try to return it to the family. [00:27:52] Speaker A: That's really cool. It's like when people find rings and things on the beach that have an inscription and they try and figure out how to get it back too. Yeah, that's cool. [00:28:01] Speaker C: So I took the Bible up to the guy up front and I said, how much is this? There's no price on it. And he made a phone call to the owner, I guess, and the owner said, $30. Like, I don't think I want to just pick up something for $30, I don't know. So I left it there and then it bothered me. So I went back and I took pictures of the documents and did some research and found out that the family is nearby around, but still wondered why the heck this Bible would be sitting in an antique shop. So I went back and got it, and when I told the owner that I was going to try to return it to the family, he said, $10. I said, I can do $10. And I grabbed it and I have tried to I'm trying to get it back to the family basically in different ways, researching, and I've located some family, but I'm having a hard time. [00:29:06] Speaker A: Well, they probably think you're a crazy person. Like they would if it were me. [00:29:10] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:29:12] Speaker A: I think that's she's not a crazy person. Well, we'll post some information about that too, and maybe our listeners can help us get the family Bible back to its home. [00:29:25] Speaker C: Yeah, I've been writing about it, so there's a few posts out there on secret boxes about what I've tried so far to get the Bible back to the family, but I haven't given up yet. [00:29:39] Speaker A: That's really cool. That's really cool. What are you working on besides the family Bible mystery? [00:29:49] Speaker C: Well, I've been working on a memoir for the past ten years, and I've just recently discovered that it's actually two memoirs, which would explain why it's still ten years and still going on. So, yeah, I've been working on pulling out a bunch of kind of psychological stuff out of the first one. The first story? The first story is a journey is my journey of finding my mom's stuff after she passed, and it having all pictures of all these people I didn't know and letters, and I started looking into that and realized it was like her real mother, not her adoptive mother. And I went on like a crazy research trail to find I love those. I just wanted to know. My mom was abandoned at eight years old. By her real mother, and I wanted to know why. So I started looking and started finding family members. And that was cool. [00:31:02] Speaker A: Lots of good information on secret boxes about this. But I love the whole idea of running down sort of familial mysteries. I think we all have them and so kind of tracking down what was going on, especially all of these things that are happening pre Internet. [00:31:29] Speaker C: Yes, definitely. In fact, I was talking about it last week with some girls over coffee, and one of them says, I have something I want to look into, too. Like her father had joined the military or something at one point when she was little and didn't know. They all think that he's running from something interesting. She wants to know what he's running from, and we might look into that. [00:32:02] Speaker A: Well, what are you working on? I should be working on many things, but I have a deadline coming up. I'm hoping to finish a short story for a Boutracon anthology. Boutracon for Those Who may Not Know is like an annual mystery convention for writers and readers and fans and editors and whatever, and it's in a different city every year, and next year it's in Nashville, which is not too far away. [00:32:36] Speaker C: That sounds fun. [00:32:37] Speaker A: Yeah, they are really a lot of fun. It really is a lot of fun. And anyway, there is a musical theme, so I would have to write a mystery short story with a musical theme. And so far all I have well, all I have is the title. I want to call it Open mic. But Mike M-I-K-E. Right. I want to call it Open mic and then that's mostly what I have so far. I got two more weeks. [00:33:15] Speaker C: When you're reading that in public, are you going to be singing too? [00:33:19] Speaker A: Nobody wants that. Nobody wants that. I mean, unless there's just been a whole lot of moonshine and a karaoke bar, then no, see, that could be a rain. All right, stay tuned, listeners. All right, well, one of the things that we like to do when we are wrapping up here is to share a writing tip that we have found helpful. [00:33:45] Speaker C: I got one. [00:33:46] Speaker A: Go ahead. [00:33:47] Speaker C: Okay, so I've been spending like the last year or so doing little classes here and there on the interwebs, mostly about how to market a book or how to taking classes or giving classes. Yes. Jane Friedman offers up a lot of those, but she has this newsletter, and I call it a guru newsletter. Jane Friedman used to be the managing editor of Writers Digest, so she knows all the ins and outs of the publishing world. So she has a few. Like, she has a newsletter called Electric Speed, which it has all of the new technical stuff that we could use for writing or publishing or all that stuff, which is really neat. And then she'll send out different blog alerts. When she's written on the blogs, and she has one more that goes out that talks about the online classes that are coming up, and they could be her classes or someone else that she partners with. But anyway, it's really good to kind of get into one of those. So you're getting something from her regularly, and it kind of keeps you connected to always. [00:35:13] Speaker A: That's cool. [00:35:13] Speaker C: Always learning. Always be learning. [00:35:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Anything that nudges us in the direction of or inspires us, I should say, to keep on writing, I think is a good thing for me. [00:35:28] Speaker C: It's like a reminder. Like, oh, I got another newsletter from Jane. What have I done since the last one? So, JaneFriedman.com, you can find that very good. [00:35:40] Speaker A: All right, well, stay tuned for another we'll have another episode coming out shortly, but in the meantime, thank you so much for taking the time to listen to our podcast. Yes, thank you, and we will talk again soon. Bye.